Use of That/ help

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Use of That/ help
Message from san99 posted on 20-06-2012 at 22:44:56 (D | E | F)
Hello,

I have a simple question to ask to you. Please do correct my sentences, I will really appreciate it.
Thank you for your help.

These are the same girls (who/that) were present in the party last night. As far as I know that is used for a single person or single item, how to use it when we talk about two or more than two persons.

Simple is: That if you don't work hard you will fail in the exam.
He is the boy that pressed the security alarm.
These are the boys (who/that) broken the street light Monday last.
I am confused with who and that here...

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Edited by lucile83 on 20-06-2012 22:52

Re: Use of That/ help from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 23:14:59 (D | E)
Hello,
that can represent singular or plural people or objects.
It is limitative:
The boy that had seen the accident was questioned by the police. (only that boy, not the others)
The people that had seen the accident were questioned by the police. (only those people, not the others)
You could use who but that is better.

Now:
The boy, who had seen the accident, was questioned by the police. Here, the relative clause is just an unimportant detail, it comes after a comma, and you can't use "that".

These are the boys (who/that) broken the street light last Monday .(that would be better than who )

Re: Use of That/ help from san99, posted on 20-06-2012 at 23:18:59 (D | E)
Ok thank you.

Re: Use of That/ help from jonquille, posted on 21-06-2012 at 16:03:58 (D | E)
Hello!
Interesting.... I'll probably be corrected for this , but I have learned that in "proper" English, "who" is for people (singular or plural), "that" is for objects. Using "who" for pets, however, is a matter of "closeness!" I would not use "who" when referring to my frogs, however, I probably would for my cat.

>She is the girl who was sitting next to my cat.
>He's the guy who sold me the car.
>I know someone who runs every day.
>The store wanted to charge me $75 for the bird that I wanted to buy.
>The car that he was driving was green.

However, in everyday language, it is common to hear both being used (correctly or otherwise!).

jonquille

Re: Use of That/ help from san99, posted on 21-06-2012 at 16:49:45 (D | E)
Hello jonquille,
Thank you for posting on the thread and contributing in the discussion.
You are right who is used for people( singular and plural), but I have seen that it is also used for companies, organizations, and firms. For instance, NRK is the best company, who provided quality leather jackets to worldwide customers. Although, I never used "who" in this way, but I always wondered if who could be used like that.

I am not sure if who can be used for pets. As per grammar rules we should use that or it? It's a beautiful cat, I never heard people saying; she is a beautiful cat unless they know its gender
I have a parrot, I don't say it though. I always say He is crying, he is singing etc.....
Both who and that can be used in the sentences... It depends on the structure of the sentence, am i right?
For example,
She is the girl that(it fits in) was sitting next to my cat.
Ron is a person, who never cared about me. (who is better to use, right)
That can be used for animals as well as for people as far as I know
He is the man who drives fast cars. He is the man that drives fast cars.
He is the man who killed his friends. He is the man that killed his friends.

Re: Use of That/ help from gerondif, posted on 21-06-2012 at 17:13:00 (D | E)
Hello,
globally speaking, for people, who is better than that unless it is a limitative clause, in which case "that" can replace who and can be seen representing people.

Ron is a person (no comma) who never cared about me.

If you personify a pet, he or she will be fine.

"Fill her up George!" said the man at the petrol station
I was taught British people would use "she " for cars or locomotives!!

Re: Use of That/ help from jonquille, posted on 21-06-2012 at 17:16:23 (D | E)
Hello!

Using "that" for companies is correct. A company, although made up of people, is not a person. It is a "thing" or "object."

As for your other sentences:
She is the girl that (it fits in) was sitting next to my cat.
I would use who because you are referring to a person. She is the girl who was sitting...

Ron is a person, who never cared about me. (who is better to use, right? yes)

That can be used for animals as well as for people, as far as I know. (It is used, in spoken language, though usually corrected in written language.)
He is the man who drives fast cars.
He is the man who killed his friends.

Re: Use of That/ help from notrepere, posted on 21-06-2012 at 19:59:18 (D | E)
Hello

One minor correction:

...were present at the party last night

Re: Use of That/ help from san99, posted on 21-06-2012 at 20:24:13 (D | E)
Yes, thanks everyone. I remembered once I read a poetry in which her was used for moonlight.
The moonlight was spreading her light everywhere in the dark...
her was used by poets for ships, boats, and many other objects including cars and bikes.. A special thanks to Gerondif, notrepre, and Sherry for being a part of this show

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