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Question tags/aide

Cours gratuits > Forum > Forum anglais: Questions sur l'anglais || En bas

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Question tags/aide
Message de remche posté le 28-01-2018 à 01:20:11 (S | E | F)
Hello everyone,
I’m trying to do at least one English exercise per week in order to improve my written skills and I’m having a really hard time understanding question tags.
For example, why do I have to write:
-‘They have a fast car, don’t they?’ instead of *‘They have a fast car, haven’t they?’
-‘She had her bedroom redone, didn’t she?’ instead of *‘She had her bedroom redone, hadn’t she?’
-‘Their son had his hand bitten off, didn’t he’ instead of *‘Their son had his hand bitten off, hadn’t he?’
-‘She never had her name revealed, did she?’ instead of *‘She never had her name revealed, hadn’t she?’
-‘You have to phone a taxi, don’t you?’ instead of *’You have to phone a taxi, haven’t you?’
-‘She had to go back home, didn’t she?’ instead of *’She had to go back home, hadn’t she?’
-‘It has to be done at once, doesn’t it?’ instead of *’It had to be done at once, hasn’t it?’

I took most of the examples from the exercises that are available on anglaisfacile.com
An English teacher (who's English, by the way) told me to think about it in terms of modal verbs. I've asked him exactly the same question and he gave me this answer:
"Quickly, re. tags, is it helpful to think of them in terms of modal verbs..?
‘They do have a fast car, don’t they?’ instead of *‘They have a fast car, haven’t they?’
‘She did have her bedroom redone, didn’t she?’ instead of *‘She had her bedroom redone, hadn’t she?’
I changed the initial statements (to include what you might see as using an emphatic modal...), but I hope that that helps: I guess it's the missing modal - as it were - that is reprised in the tag..."
It helps but I think I need another explanation to understand it better. Is there a specific prescriptive grammar rule for this kind of situation?
Thank you,
Rémi

-------------------
Modifié par lucile83 le 28-01-2018 10:09


Réponse : Question tags/aide de originaloldman, postée le 28-01-2018 à 04:12:45 (S | E)
Hello Rémi,
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a prescriptive grammar rule, but maybe it will help you to think of it like a negation:
"They have a fast car" -> "They don't have a fast car" -> "Don't they have a fast car?" -> "They have a fast car, don't they?"
"She had her bedroom redone" -> "She didn't have her bedroom redone" -> "Didn't she have her bedroom redone?" -> "She had her bedroom redone, didn't she?"
Excellent work on getting your English to this point, you write like a native!



Réponse : Question tags/aide de lucile83, postée le 28-01-2018 à 10:20:31 (S | E)
Hello,
Remember that to have may be an auxiliary verb and a verb, such as to own for instance.
‘They have a fast car, don’t they? = They own a fast car, don't they?

When to have is used as an auxiliary verb it is part of a compound tense: they have bought/they have written,they had eaten,etc.
Hope it helps.



Réponse : Question tags/aide de gerondif, postée le 28-01-2018 à 13:04:05 (S | E)
Bonjour,
J'ai un peu de peur de m'adresser à quelqu'un qui cite la Advanced English Grammar, "A Linguistic Approach d'Ilse Depraetere et Chad Langford."
Je vais puiser mes sources dans " A simplified (or simplistic) English grammar, a pragmatic approach " by gérondif tel qu'il l'enseignait à ses élèves....
Tout a été dit dans les messages précédents mais comme on dit en allemand et peut-être aussi en platt lorrain "doppelgenäht hält besser" (sans garantie quant-à l'orthographe), Ça tient mieux quand c'est cousu deux fois ! (mon épouse est mosellane et prof d'allemand)

Un verbe lexical anglais ne sait rien faire, il est très paresseux, et donc (sauf dans trois cas, disons deux cas et demi, l'impératif, le présent et le prétérit simple) il aura recours à un moteur, un cheval, un auxiliaire.

Dessinez un bonhomme tenant par les rênes un cheval, lequel traîne un chariot. Considérez que le bonhomme(le sujet) est en colonne 1, le cheval (l'auxiliaire) en colonne 2 et le chariot (le verbe lexical) en colonne trois. (On peut moderniser la parabole en disant conducteur, moteur, carrosserie)

Vous avez ici le schéma d'une conjugaison anglaise , 1.2.3., où le travail est fait par l'auxiliaire qui:
donne le temps ou le mode:
I can come
I must come
I will come
I have come
I should come
He is coming
He was coming, etc

Le chariot est bien trop lourd, c'est l'auxiliaire qui bondit pour faire l'inversion en 2.1.3.
Can you come ? etc

Le chariot est bien trop lourd, c'est l'auxiliaire qui fait les réponses courtes et tous les tags:
He can come, can't he ? yes, he can, no he can't
He will come, won't he ? Yes, he will, No, he won't ! Ah, will he ? I won't !

Le chariot est incapable de prendre la négation, c'est l'auxiliaire qui s'en charge.
He can't come, he won't come, He hasn't come.

Bon, maintenant on a deux temps où on croit que le chariot s'est libéré et fonctionne tout seul.
Le présent simple et le prétérit simple, mais il n'en est rien, on a juste provisoirement un ensemble vide sous le 2
He likes tea
He played tennis.
Play tennis !(le verbe est tout seul à l'impératif affirmatif)
Le schéma est en fait 1 (2) 3, le verbe reste en 3

MAIS dès qu'on va vouloir toucher à ce verbe, le système 1 2 3 se remettra en place et l'auxiliaire caché en 2, do ou did, revient au galop (pratique comme image avec le cheval)
Does he like tea ?
Did he play tennis ? 2 1 3
Yes he did, no, he didn't
He doesn't like tea.
He didn't play tennis.
Don't play tennis now !

DONC, une fois que cela est acquis, il est normalement impossible de dire:
He has a car, hasn't he ? Yes, he has.
He had problems, hadn't he ; Yes, he had
Sinon, il faudrait accepter : He likes tea, likesn't he ? Yes, he likes.

MAIS je vois des phrases similaires à Has he a car ? à longueur de roman chez l'auteur irlandais Maeve Binchy que je lis en ce moment, et un jour un gentleman écossais très bien habillé m'a demandé : Have you the time ?, donc cette structure normalement incorrecte dans la grammaire puriste existe bien, et pas que chez les miséreux.

Comme le dit Lucile, elle vient de la confusion entre le verbe lexical posséder, avoir (to possess, to own, to have) et l'auxiliaire d'un temps composé. Ça, c'est pour votre premier exemple.

‘They have a fast car, don’t they?’ instead of *‘They have a fast car, haven’t they?’
Par contre : They have got a fast car, haven't they ? Yes, they have. They have bought a fast car, haven't they ? Yes, they have.

Pour les autres, ce sont des structures qui emploient non pas l'auxiliaire avoir de I have got, I have seen, I had bought, mais le verbe lexical have et une forme passive avec un sujet qui le sépare du verbe lexical have.
C'est pareil pour les structures causatives du type: He would have us believe that he is honest, où on voit bien que have est un verbe lexical puisqu'il accepte un auxiliaire comme would.
I had him work = I made him work = I forced him to work, verbes lexicaux, soumis à do ou did
I didn't have him work, I didn't make him work, I didn't force him to work.

Si vous mettiez vos phrases à la forme négative, vous verriez la même chose qu'avec votre do emphatique.

-‘She didn't have her bedroom redone, did she?’ ’
-‘Their son didn't have his hand bitten off, did he ?’
-‘She never had her name revealed, did she?’
She didn't have her name revealed, did she ?
-‘You don't have to phone a taxi, do you?’
-‘She didn't have to go back home, did she?’
-‘It doesn't have to be done at once, does it?’

Remarquez aussi que votre do emphatique s'applique au verbe lexical être et avoir mais pas aux auxiliaires être et avoir (je disais "qu'un remorqueur ne remorque pas un aure remorqueur", un auxiliaire ne peut s'appliquer à un autre auxiliaire)
Do have a piece of cake! Do have a beer , au sens de consommer, manger.
I did have a good time , I did enjoy myslef.
Do be on time! Do be reasonable.

Mais vous ne pourrez jamais faire: He does is waiting ! ou He does has seen the film .



Réponse : Question tags/aide de remche, postée le 28-01-2018 à 14:14:46 (S | E)
Hello,
Thank you all for the time you dedicated to me and your precious help! Your answers were really helpful and I hope I will make fewer mistakes in the future.
I have understood that it is the auxiliary that practically does all the job, and I have to look for it when it comes to question tags.
Have a nice day,
Rémi



Réponse : Question tags/aide de gerondif, postée le 28-01-2018 à 14:28:52 (S | E)
Hello,
(I added a few things to my previous post)
a native once told me that "I have understood that" is typically French thinking, they would rather say:
Do you understand ? not, Have you understood ?
So you should write: I (now) understand that.....

Of course, I used the modern and to my mind redundant (meaning repetitive) "would rather" which replaced "had rather" which we used to learn in sentences like:
"He had rather play than work but he had better work than play," where had WAS a modal !!
So, "Hadn't you better work than play ? Yes, you had / Yes, you had better do that !" would be correct.
"Hadn't you rather work than play ? Yes, I had rather play than work." used to be correct.
"Would you rather play than work ? Yes, I would !" is usual these days.



Réponse : Question tags/aide de remche, postée le 28-01-2018 à 15:24:42 (S | E)
Hello,

Thank you again for this piece of advice!

Rémi




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