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The/zero article

Forum > English only || Bottom

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The/zero article
Message from mohammad51 posted on 09-08-2018 at 19:14:42 (D | E | F)
Hello
please help
Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural.
Which articles are the best or the correct articles to use here?
the \ the or zero article
I hope you will answer both the questions.
question 2
This is a curious species of —— rose.
a rose, the rose, or rose ?

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 09-08-2018 19:42


Re: The/zero article from sherry48, posted on 10-08-2018 at 14:15:59 (D | E)
Hello.
Articles in English are used to indicate general vs. specific nouns. Here is an example of the difference in meaning between a and the in 2 sentences that are otherwise the same. Link

With this information, can you answer your questions?
Sherry



Re: The/zero article from mohammad51, posted on 10-08-2018 at 16:05:47 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you sherry48 for sharing
I know all rules of which article to use, the indefinite articles ( a \ an) and the definite ( the) or zero article.
However, sometimes the matter becomes mixed or let me say difficult which one to choose.
according to my view, the first example ( Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural.) can be solved by two ways:
Nouns have two numbers, singular and plural. No one can say it is wrong, but the matter is not stopped to this limit.

For example I can say ( Nouns have two numbers, the singular and the plural. why ?
I want to focus on theses branches of numbers so that be powered by ( the) i.e. to take a resolution from the ( to make them specific ) or look attractive and well understood into the reader's mind.
Books do not give you all you need and ever lack to the complete information.
***
In the second example ( This is a curious species of rose) >>>>>zero article
If you insert ( a) before the noun ( rose) = not wrong because rose = singular noun which its plural is Roses.
But here likely the writer made it as a symbol to refer to whole ( any rose in the entire world or at least in his region), so that to make it an example to be different from other species of roses.

Lastly I want gerondif to review what I said.
Thank you all

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 10-08-2018 19:08
You can't choose your 'teacher' on the site. We are all volunteers, and here in order to help, which we are also able to do.
You have been rude to volunteers, as well as to gerondif who may feel uncomfortable because of you.



Re: The/zero article from gerondif, posted on 10-08-2018 at 17:04:54 (D | E)
Hello,
How nice for Sherry48 to have a "gerondif" flung across her face !! Ah, she is probably too young to venture answering grammar questions, and at a disadvantage, being a native speaker ! ( This might be second degree thinking ! )
I have always seen "in the singular" , "in the plural", so I would put the in the first example.
I found this on the internet:
A Curious New Species of Albuca (Hyacinthaceae) from Saudi Arabia
I would have said : A curious species of rose.
Link
.
Not because of what you explained, but because it has always been said that way.
I would only say : This is a curious species of a rose if I were holding it in my hand now and waving it or showing it to somebody. It is a special pattern, I think, to point to a particular subject. He was a tall, gaunt type of a man....I am practically sure I have already read something like that but I can't find any example under linguee or whatever, so it may be local, familiar or wrong...




Re: The/zero article from sherry48, posted on 10-08-2018 at 18:53:53 (D | E)
Hello.
Thanks, gerondif for coming to my rescue, and I wish I were young, but alas, I am not. I have often said that the best correcters are teachers of English as a Foreign Language, since we native speakers learn our grammar mainly by hearing language spoken around us from childhood. In fact, when ESL students ask me about a grammar rule, I don't always have a ready explanation, but I can usually figure it out if I think about it for a moment!
Mohammad, since you understand that 'the' is used to speak of a specific noun, what part of speech would you say singular and plural are?
For the second example, I would say there are many species of roses (plural), but your example is singular (This is...)
Sherry



Re: The/zero article from mohammad51, posted on 10-08-2018 at 20:35:59 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you both gerondif and sherry48, as well as the administration of the forum here.
Indeed I feel any English forum would be my home so that I love English language where I go or leave.
-----
For the word species there is no plural form of it so it is considered a mas noun like snow.
The area is rich in different plant species.
A\ An are used before singular countable nouns as well as before adjective and more to say you can't use a or an before an adjective is followed by uncountable noun. Perhaps some use it but others say " wrong". "Because the rule affects the noun"
The:
Is used before countable nouns ( singular\ plural) and uncountable nouns:
The lion is the king of beasts. >>> Because it is the only king
The two lions I saw last time in the zoo, escaped.
Rice is the main mail for Iraqi nation.
The rice I bought yesterday from the market, was not good.
Water is composed of O2 and co2.
The water of Basra region is harmful to drink. (certain water of a certain region)
The weather was awful last summer. ( particularly in the last summer)
The sun gives us healthy rays.( always it is preceded by the)
We had to paint our house before we sold it. ( He both listener and speaker know which house we talk about)

******
Again to my questions
q 1 Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural.( none of you give his notice about it)
2- This is a curious species of a (rose).
I accept with gerondif to say a rose.
I said a rose it can be but as it is used in a symbolic meaning then " rose".



Re: The/zero article from sherry48, posted on 11-08-2018 at 00:57:54 (D | E)
Hello again.
I don't usually give direct answers, but point in the right direction. I said before that articles are used to indicate general vs. specific nouns. I asked you about singular and plural, but you didn't respond. They are not nouns, are they? A, an, the can go before an adjective that is followed by a noun.

1. Nouns have two numbers, singular and plural.
The word species can be singular or plural.
There are many species of animals.
One popular species of dog is the Golden Retriever.

2. This is a curious species of rose.
There are many other species of roses.

Gerondif, you are welcome to comment on any of my responses! Sherry



Re: The/zero article from mohammad51, posted on 11-08-2018 at 03:16:05 (D | E)
Hello
Dear a woman teacher sherry48
You asked me about singular and plural ..... why to ask me ?
Even the child of six year- old knows nouns are singular and plural if they are countable.
The question itself is ( Nouns have two numbers, .....singular and.... plural.)
In addition I gave many examples and all in all are correct.
I came to ask then you who asked me? This is unbelievable to treat with users.
If I am not suspected on something, why I come to ask.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 11-08-2018 08:07
No red on the forums, thanks.



Re: The/zero article from mohammad51, posted on 11-08-2018 at 03:56:39 (D | E)
Hello
perhaps this post is the last one I post here.
The question I delivered from the book ( Practical exercises in English ) Page 14
xxx

Here the questions ( I copied and paste them as they were. )
My note : In question 2 ( There are two articles, the definite and -------indefinite.) Of course the second also should be (the) so it is similar to question 5 ( Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural) >>> I never changed any .. you can review the book.
EXERCISE VI.
Insert the proper article ("a," "an," or "the") in each blank place in the following, if an article is needed; if no article is needed, leave the place blank:—
1. I began to suffer from —— want of food.
2. There are two articles, the definite and —— indefinite.
3. He did not say what kind of —— horse he wanted to buy.
4. Did Macaulay die of —— heart disease?
5. Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 11-08-2018 08:10



Re: The/zero article from lucile83, posted on 11-08-2018 at 10:13:37 (D | E)
Hello,
1. I began to suffer from —— want of food. the or no article is ok
2. There are two articles, the definite and —— indefinite. the
3. He did not say what kind of —— horse he wanted to buy. a
4. Did Macaulay die of —— heart disease? no article
5. Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural. the + the

Haven't you noticed that, on the forums, we prefer the members to answer on their own, rather than just give them the correction?
Even if you don't really know the answer you are expected to make an attempt.
Regards.



Re: The/zero article from gerondif, posted on 11-08-2018 at 13:03:14 (D | E)
Hello,
You wrote this :
Again to my questions
q 1 Nouns have two numbers, —— singular and —— plural.( none of you give his notice about it)
2- This is a curious species of a (rose).
I accept with gerondif to say a rose.
I said a rose it can be but as it is used in a symbolic meaning then " rose".

But what about my :
I have always seen "in the singular" , "in the plural", so I would put the in the first example.

The only thing I disagree about in Sherry's post is that singular and plural are nouns in the quoted example.
Nouns have two numbers, the singular and the plural.
Most nouns can be either singular or plural . ok, adjectives here.

Another example of difference between adjectives and nouns :
"Even the child of six year- old knows nouns are singular and plural if they are countable.'
Adjectival structure (no plural possible) : Even a six-year-old child would know that.....
Plural noun : Even a child (who would be) six years old would know that.
Even a child of six years / aged six years / would know that.

You can't put "a" in your
"Dear a woman teacher sherry48"
Do you make a difference between female teachers and male teachers ? You sound as if you were cross because a female teacher dared ask you to find an answer.




Re: The/zero article from mohammad51, posted on 11-08-2018 at 14:14:35 (D | E)
Hello
The last two answers of lucile83 and gerondif are the possible answers which moved away all the suspicion.

Now I am pleased and I feel happy.
Nouns have two numbers, the singular and the plural.
I asked this question to my students and many of them answered it by ( zero article)
I did not accept and said both are ( the) and expressed my view as I expressed in the first topic I posted here.
I have been working as a teacher and translator at least for twenty years; my basic field firstly was the biology then I changed to language and went to translation department. My view is to read language underneath the surface and got it from all its directions the semantics, pragmatics and grammar that the surrounding situation must be read more and more.
I admit the translation developed my knowledge and would say, master in translation has knowledge more than one has a doctorate in basic language. The translation helps the researcher to read on the roots of any language he deals with giving him the way to contrast between source language ( SL) and target language ( TL). Not sometimes but many times, by the virtue of translation I easily reach the point. This example above I never got its answer online just what mentioned in the book I brought its title to the page, but by my deep thought I suggested the used articles should be ( the ) so that to focus on the result ( the numbers of nouns) making the reader considering what said , and because of that, I would say, " The definite article gives the word or the speech more emphasis or stress."

Many thanks to the great teacher gerondif as well as to lucile83.




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