American language very important.

<< Retour au forum || Aller tout en bas

English only
All your questions about the English language, no French allowed.

Ce sujet est fermé, vous ne pouvez pas poster de réponses

American language very important.
Message de djoser posté le 29-08-2005 à 23:48:29 (S | E | F | I)
Thanks for this good site of learning English ilike it very much. So more and more I see that American language is propagating all over the world and i find more diffIculties to understand it not like english language ...

so I want you to help me to find a way to be able to understand it and speak it too...
thanks a lot...

-------------------
Edité par bridg le 30-08-2005 06:46

Réponse: American language very important. de bridg, postée le 30-08-2005 à 06:59:39 (S | E)
Hello
How do you want us to help you?
When you learn the English language you learn the "bases".So if you want to understand The American language you must hear it on the TV or with DVD .... with an american dictionary nearby. Step by step you'll progress.

Réponse: American language very important. de lepingouin, postée le 05-09-2005 à 18:57:31 (S | E)
It's better to learn proper English than American English (guess where I'm from ). A lot of American English doesn't make sense, and whereas American English sometimes sounds strange in England, proper English doesn't sound strange in America. Here are two examples of weird American English:

1. "I didn't do it yet" ("I haven't done it yet")
2. "Give me the keys already" ("Give me the keys now")

Réponse: American language very important. de traviskidd, postée le 05-09-2005 à 19:17:43 (S | E)
It's not weird at all. (Guess where I'm from. )

1. "I didn't do it yet." No ambiguity. The simple past tense doesn't imply that there is a link to the present, but neither does it have to imply that there isn't one. In particular, the simple past can be used when one is talking about having done a certain specific thing at a certain point (or "window") in time.

Have you ever seen that movie?
Did you ever get around to seeing that movie I told you about, or have you been too busy?

Of course, there are cases where the simple past cannot be used. For instance, I lived in London for ten years implies that you no longer live in London, whereas I've lived in London for ten years implies that you still live there (except in the strange yet possible case "I've lived in London for ten years before." (= "I've survived ten years of people speaking weird English." ) )

2. "Already" is an expression of impatience, often said when one has aleady asked politely many times.

Girl to annoying little brother: Stop it already! I've already asked you a zillion times. Haven't you bothered me enough?

Réponse: American language very important. de lepingouin, postée le 06-09-2005 à 13:27:13 (S | E)
The ambiguity doesn't come from relationships between tenses, but from giving extra meanings to 'yet' and 'already'. In Anglo-English, we don't use 'yet' with the imperfect, only the perfect. And no-one here uses 'already' like that (unless they've been watching too much American TV)

Réponse: American language very important. de lucile83, postée le 06-09-2005 à 14:33:46 (S | E)
Hello,

Please make the difference between the spoken language and the written one; if you can speak English you'll be able to speak American; there are some different meanings but all together both languages are similar. You can speak English or American, everybody will understand you.
However, when you write a text, be careful not to mix English and American because in the written language you could be told to have made a mistake
See you soon

Réponse: American language very important. de traviskidd, postée le 06-09-2005 à 17:21:47 (S | E)
Hi Lucile. I'm not sure how you can find that the spoken dialects can agree when the written ones differ. I think that spoken dialects would differ before written ones.

Lepingouin, no new meaning is given to "yet". It is just that the present perfect is simplified to the simple past, as no ambiguity in meaning is created by doing so. The person "has done" it if, and only if, he "did" it.

I suppose a new meaning has been given to "already", if in fact you don't use it this way in Britain. It simply means that one has (or should have) "already" exhausted his patience.

Enough already! You're getting on my nerves!

A: I've spent a week deciding whether or not to go see a doctor, and I still can't make up my mind.
B: Just go already! There's no sense prolonging this decision!

-------------------
Edité par traviskidd le 06-09-2005 17:35
Lucile, I see what you mean now. Yes, there are some spelling differences between American and British English. And I should say that the British are more inconsistent on this point.

They write "centre" and "theatre", but they write "letter" and "better". (We write "center" and "theater" in America.)

They write "terror" and "governor", but they write "honour" and "labour". (We write "honor" and "labor" in America.)

-------------------
Edité par traviskidd le 06-09-2005 17:51
Lepingouin, I('ve) just noticed that you used the word "imperfect" to refer to the simple past (preterit) tense. Is it really called "imperfect" in Britan? Because it's not the same as the French "imparfait" (although in certain cases it is translated that way).

Réponse: American language very important. de lepingouin, postée le 06-09-2005 à 20:00:30 (S | E)
Oh, I just assumed that the English tense I was talking about was the imperfect. To be honest, I don't know that much about the theory of languages.

Both our "Englishes" have strange spellings and pronounciations in them, due to English being a natural language comprising various bits and bobs from various other languages. I agree that the American spellings of "centre" and "theatre" make more sense than the British ones, but when you consider the words "central" and "theatrical", I think our spellings are vindicated.

I reckon the most important differences that non English speakers should be aware of are "the two m's" - mum/mom and maths/math. Anyone who doesn't think these words are important should either go see their mom or do the math

Réponse: American language very important. de traviskidd, postée le 07-09-2005 à 01:06:29 (S | E)
LOL

Here, for someone to be (or keep) "mum" means that he is not going to tell a secret.

And "maths" has always confused me. It appears to be a plural of the abbreviation "math". But I once read on a newsgroup the subject title "MATHS ROCKS!" which then suggests that it is singular or uncountable. So I'm not entirely sure how you regard the word "maths" (or its true form "mathematics").

I regard "mathematics" as an uncountable noun, thus taking a singular conjugation ("rocks") and also removing the "s" in its abbreviated form ("math"). So I would say "MATH ROCKS!"

And, as a mathematician, I can identify with that sentence.

The imperfect tense does not exist in English as such. It tells what was generally (or habitually) true in the past. It is expressed in French by the imparfait and in Spanish by the imperfecto, but in English we just use the simple past ("I worked on a farm last year.").

It is worth noting that the English past progressive ("I was working") is also translated by the French imparfait, but in Spanish it is translated as in English (I'm not sure of the name of the tense in Spanish -- preterito progresivo?): "(yo) estuvo trabajando".

P.S. I believe that in French they say "les maths" ... a plural!

Réponse: American language very important. de lepingouin, postée le 07-09-2005 à 11:18:11 (S | E)
We have that use of "mum" too, for example "mum's the word" means keep it secret.

The "s" at the end of "maths" is the same "s" as is at the end of "mathematics" (c.f. "stats" for "statistics"). Singulars and plurals don't come into it.

I think that as far as "math(s)" is concerned, the best we can do is agree to differ

(I'm a physics graduate, so I've done a fair amount of maths in my time too. I liked calculus and geometry best.)

Réponse: American language very important. de traviskidd, postée le 07-09-2005 à 18:08:46 (S | E)
Well of course we can agree to differ. And I don't have trouble with the word "maths" as such; it just seems to imply that it is in fact a plural. Otherwise why put the last letter into the abbreviation?

Thus it is a sentence such as "Maths rocks!" that unsettles my ear, in that it seems to contain a subject-verb disagreement.

I would use "stats" when referring to a countable number of statistics. ("What were the stats from last night's football game?"), but to talk about the subject of statistics, I would say "stat".

How would you abbreviate "physics"? "Phys" or "physes"?

Réponse: American language very important. de kenzo45, postée le 07-09-2005 à 19:55:13 (S | E)

The American language is more "colloquial" than the proper English, it's more based on different "slangs" and "phrasal verbs", the pronunciation makes it a bit "rude", they speak the way they write and they write the way they speak, Ex: "do you see where I'm coming from ?", signifiant: "Tu vois où je veux en venir ?" Etc...
But, it will be " a must ", to be able to understand the American way of speaking!! The world 's going global !
Bye

Réponse: American language very important. de lepingouin, postée le 08-09-2005 à 20:35:04 (S | E)
I have to agree with you, kenzo: it's important to know American English. However, that doesn't mean it can't play second fiddle to British English

Traviskidd: re maths, I think you're on a wild goose chase with subject-verb disagreements. How does "mathematics rocks" affect your ears? Surely you wouldn't say "mathematic rocks"? Maths, math, and mathematics are all singular. And would you really refer to statistics as "stat"?? Does anyone over there actually use that word?

We don't abbreviate "physics", but there are various four-year university degrees that use abbreviated subject names. Examples include MEng (Master of Engineering), MPhys (physics), and MMath (yes, we do use "math" in this scenario!)

Réponse: American language very important. de traviskidd, postée le 08-09-2005 à 22:18:25 (S | E)
Well as I said I don't think "mathematics" is either singular nor plural, but rather uncountable (like "milk" and "news"). Like all uncountable nouns, it takes the indefinite articles of the plural ("some", or no article at all) but the verbs for the singular (i.e. with the addition of the "s"). Hence I would indeed say "Mathematics rocks!" as well as "Math rocks!" It is "Maths rocks!" that bothers me.

The supposed singular noun "mathematic" does not exist to me, which is essentially my point, that "mathematics" is not a plural. In fact I believe we agree on this. What bothers me is your inclusion of the final "s" in the abbreviation in spite of this.

It would not upset my ears at all (though it would still be "different") if you in fact did view the word "mathematics" as plural and included the "s" in the abbreviation, as long as you then used the proper form of the verb and said "Maths rock!" But that doesn't appear to be the case.

Concerning "stat(s)", I did an Internet search for both "stats homework" and "stat homework". I must admit the former returned more results, but the latter returned a significant number as well. So while I'm certainly not alone in saying "stat", it appears that I am in the minority. Nor can I claim that "stats" was only found on foreign sites, because I found two sites from the same university in Tennessee, one saying "stat" and the other "stats".

I can only surmise that the reason "stats" may be acceptable but "maths" isn't is that the word "statistics" does in fact have a plural sense, and maybe some people have sort of confused the plural sense with the uncountable one.

Heeeere goosey-goosey!

Réponse: American language very important. de alexgowes, postée le 08-09-2005 à 22:59:15 (S | E)
It's important to remember that both in Britain and in the U.S., there are various degrees of spoken language. The Cockney dialect in England and the Ebonic dialect in the U.S. are both horrendous mutations of a perfectly good language, in my view. If I were French, I would try to learn English as it is spoken by well-educated people in Britain, and then look at some of the more common U.S. variations (not to speak them, but to recognize them). British English is recognized all over the world. On the other hand, a lot of Americanisms seem like bad grammar to non-American English speakers. (And in many cases they are bad grammar!)

Ce sujet est fermé, vous ne pouvez pas poster de réponse.