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Participle/gerund ... (1)

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Participle/gerund ...
Message from a_limon posted on 12-05-2012 at 16:15:35
Hello!

Could you tell me please whether the words in parentheses are gerunds or participles?
Or they might be both participles and gerunds? I think they might be both.

I’m busy (refurnishing) my room, don’t call me this weekend.
It’s no use (crying) over spilt milk.
It’s no good (calling) him, he’s abroad.
I had trouble (starting) my car this morning.
I had a hard time (understanding) what he was saying.
Geoffrey spent the whole weekend (working) in the garden.
I don’t want to feel that I wasted my youth (being) good and responsible when I should have been bad and rebellious.

Thanks for your answers.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 12-05-2012 17:54
-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 20-05-2012 16:53


Re: Participle/gerund ... by dolfine56, posted on 12-05-2012 at 17:29:13
Hello Limon,
Please give us your answers, we'll correct if necessary.


Re: Participle/gerund ... by lucile83, posted on 12-05-2012 at 17:54:29
Hello,

We have all spent hours discussing that point and you still hesitate between a gerund and a participle...
Link

Link

As dolfine said, please give us your work first and we'll proofread it.
Regards.




Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 12-05-2012 at 18:53:52
Hello,

I have to say that I hesitate between a gerund and a participle far not always....
The exercises given on a link,lucile, were made by me without hesitation. But some kinds of verbs and nouns before ing-form verbs make me hesitate. So, I think all ing-forms in my examples could be participles in participle phrases modifying the subjects in the sentences,if one puts the commas before them.

I’m busy,refurnishing my room, don’t call me this weekend.
It’s no use ,crying over spilt milk.
It’s no good, calling him, he’s abroad.
I had trouble,starting my car this morning.
I had a hard time, understanding what he was saying.
Geoffrey spent the whole weekend, working in the garden.
**I don’t want to feel that I wasted my youth, being good and responsible when I should have been bad and rebellious.
****************************
If we have not a comma before ing-forms here, then we have deal with gerunds, which modify the nouns or adjectives before them. It would be clear to me if there was the preposition "in":
I’m busy in refurnishing my room, don’t call me this weekend.
It’s no use in crying over spilt milk.
It’s no good in calling him, he’s abroad.
I had trouble in starting my car this morning.
I had a hard time in understanding what he was saying.
Geoffrey spent the whole weekend in working in the garden.
I understand we have a liitle different sense at that.
The ing-form in ** is only a participle.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 12-05-2012 19:00
If we have not a comma before ing-forms here, then we have deal with gerunds, which modify the nouns or adjectives before them.
IF...if you have read the links I gave you, you have possibly not understood everything


Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 13-05-2012 at 12:01:00
Lucile

The link you gave me shows simple examples, which is not impossible to not to understand.:-)
If I had a problem(s) with understanding there I would have made mistakes in exercises given there. I didn't.
I suspect my questions couldn'tbe answered.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 13-05-2012 12:50


Re: Participle/gerund ... by sherry48, posted on 13-05-2012 at 14:21:33
Hello.
You can ask yourself a simple question. What is the function of the word ending in ing?
Does it act as a noun or an adjective?
Sherry



Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 13-05-2012 at 16:02:50
Hello.

When I ask myself a simple question, I always can answer it, without someone's help. But ing-verbs sometimes occur in such positions, where they could be both: Particle and Gerund.
That is what these sentences are about, I think. It seems to me that these ing-verbs (if they would be are gerunds) without prepositions before them (of,in) couldn't modify the nouns or adjectives.
Only participles can modify nouns, pronouns without prepositions before them.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 13-05-2012 16:36


Re: Participle/gerund ... by willy, posted on 13-05-2012 at 16:48:20
Hello!

You ought to find some useful explanations here:
Link



Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 13-05-2012 at 17:11:13
Willy
Thanks for your link. It helps me.:-)


Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 13-05-2012 at 20:34:44
It's clear when the possessives (my,your,his,John's)are used as modifiers for gerunds.
They insisted on my resigning the post.
Does my smoking annoy you?
I don't mind your coming late.
I hate all this useless arguing.
There is no hope of his arriving on time.
She was angry at John's trying to lie to her.
What does modify object pronouns when we use object pronouns instead of possessive ones...They insisted on me resigning the post. I don't mind you coming late.
She was angry at John trying to lie to her..(in this case it's clear that "John" modifies the gerund "trying")
I always thought that object pronouns couldn't be modifiers like possessive ones, and the ing-verbs after them are participles, which are modifying the object pronouns.



Re: Participle/gerund ... by willy, posted on 14-05-2012 at 06:52:51
In an informal style, it is more common to use object forms (me, John) instead of possessives (my, John's), mainly when these come after a verb or preposition.
After verbs like "see, hear, feel, watch", possessives are not used with -ing forms.


Re: Participle/gerund ... by notrepere, posted on 14-05-2012 at 07:11:58
Hello

Here is a very good page on gerunds:
Link


And one on participles:
Link




Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 14-05-2012 at 19:28:47
Hello,willy!
In an informal style, it is more common to use object forms (me, John) instead of possessives (my, John's), mainly when these come after a verb or preposition.
I got it. But the question is what is the function of the gerund after object pronouns?
In the sentence "I don't mind your coming." we have the gerund phrase "your coming" (object), where "your" modifies the "coming".
But in the sentence "I don't mind you coming", I think, we have the noun phrase(object),where "coming",a participle,
modifies the pronoun "you".
I understand that there is almost no difference in that. But in my language,we have absolutely different words for gerunds and participles.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 14-05-2012 22:09


Re: Participle/gerund ... by gerondif, posted on 14-05-2012 at 19:34:41
Hello,
As you say in your last post, I had been taught that:
I don't mind your smoking: smoking is a gerund.
I don't mind you smoking. smoking is a present participle.
I don't mind you when you are smoking.


Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 15-05-2012 at 00:24:38
Hello,gerondif.

Thank you for your posting in this topic. The topic "participle vs Gerund" is enough quite complicated , and I'm not sure that I'll not have questions about it any more.
So, I ask not to close it to not open the new one about it.
Thank you once more.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 15-05-2012 08:47
You'll have to open a new topic.But I hope you'll study that grammatical point carefully before asking for help.


Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 18-05-2012 at 17:46:09
Hello!
I would like to ask the questions on the stuff that willy gave in the link.
.....In an informal style, it is more common to use object pronouns (like John, me, him, you) instead of possessives (your, his, my, John's) with �ing forms.

They insisted on me resigning the post.
She was angry at John trying to lie to her. In these cases we have deal with the participles 1, haven't we?

Object forms are also preferred when the gerund is in the passive form or when the noun denotes a lifeless thing.

We were shocked at President Kennedy being assassinated. (NOT Kennedy's �)
There is no danger of the roof crashing. (NOT roof's)
There is no hope of the fog lifting for another hour. (NOT fog�s)

Some verbs (e.g. see, hear, watch, feel) are normally followed by object + -ing form.

I saw him running out of the room. (NOT I saw his �
Crashing, lifiting, being assassinated are participles 1?



Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 18-05-2012 at 18:03:20
Could you tell me please why the prepositions sometimes are put before gerunds and sometimes not.
not the slightest use in doing it.
*it's No use galloping if you are going in the wrong direction. (Is it correct to use "in" in *?,or it would be mistaken to do?)
"It" as a preparatory subject
When the subject is a phrase that includes a gerund, 'it' is often used as a preparatory subject to begin the sentence.
It is nice talking to you. (= Talking to you is nice.)
The structure is particularly common with any/no good, any/no use, worth etc.

It is no good your trying to deceive us. (=Your trying to deceive us is no good.)
Is it any good my talking to him?
It is no use trying to convince them.
It is no fun being shot.
Is it worth complaining about his conduct?
It is no use waiting.
Is it worth talking to him?
If we put preposition before gerunds in these cases, would it be a mistake?


Re: Participle/gerund ... by a_limon, posted on 20-05-2012 at 15:25:30

not the slightest use in doing it.(I have not slightest use in doing it.)
*it's no use galloping if you are going in the wrong direction. (Is it correct to use "in" in *?,or it would be mistaken to do?) Is any dependence between using "in" and "not"?
"It" as a preparatory subject
When the subject is a phrase that includes a gerund, 'it' is often used as a preparatory subject to begin the sentence.
It is nice talking to you. (= Talking to you is nice.)
The structure is particularly common with any/no good, any/no use, worth etc.

It is no good your trying to deceive us. (=Your trying to deceive us is no good.)Could one say "Your trying to deceive us is NOT good.
Is it any good my talking to him? Could one say "Is it any good IN my talking to him?
It is no use trying to convince them. Could one say"It is not useful trying to convince him"?
It is no fun being shot. Could one say"It is not funny being shot"?
It is no use waiting. Could one say"It is no use IN long waiting him"?
If we put preposition before gerunds in these cases, would it be a mistake?


Re: Participle/gerund ... by lucile83, posted on 20-05-2012 at 16:47:17
Hello,

Everybody here tries to give you correct examples and you just try to make incorrect sentences!
You have to learn those idiomatic expressions, that's all.
willy , notrepere and I gave you links, gerondif explained you a few things,dolfine and sherry did so,but we can't spend hours on that topic if you don't want to understand,sorry.
Moreover you ask me questions by private message,I answer you but it seems useless.





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