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As/when or because

Forum > English only || Bottom

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As/when or because
Message from a_limon posted on 19-06-2012 at 00:14:43 (D | E | F)
Hello!

Tell me please how to understand this sentence.

As he came into the window was the sound of a crescendo.
1)The way he came into the window was like the sound of a crescendo.
2)Because of he came into the window it was the sound of a crescendo. (He broke the glass of window.)
3)When he came into the window,it was the sound of a crescendo.
Link

Thank you for your help.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 19-06-2012 08:21


Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 19-06-2012 at 00:23:57 (D | E)
Hello,
you got it wrong,
I would have said
As he came into the window there was the sound of a crescendo.

the song says:
As he came into the window,it was the sound of a crescendo.
1)The way he came into the window was like the sound of a crescendo.
2)Because of he came into the window it was the sound of a crescendo. (He broke the glass of window.)
3)When he came into the window,it was the sound of a crescendo.
Link


It doesn't make much sense, crescendo means that the sound is increasing.




Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 00:56:29 (D | E)
Gerondif,

I know what crescendo means.
Only sentence 3) is correct?
Why do you paint the "of" red?
Could you tell me please in which cases the "as" means "because of" and in which the "when"?

What do I get wrong? What do you mean?

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 19-06-2012 08:24




Re: As/when or because from notrepere, posted on 19-06-2012 at 01:14:02 (D | E)
Hello

You don't say "Because of he" you say "Because he". Red on the forum generally means the word should be deleted.
None of your sentences make sense, as gerondif has already pointed out, because a crescendo doesn't have a sound.
Here's an example of the use of the word 'crescendo': The crescendo of the orchestra masked the sound of his coming through the window.




Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 19-06-2012 at 10:14:23 (D | E)
Hello,
"because of" works like a preposition and is followed by a noun: He was late because of the rain.

As can mean because: As he was late, he was punished = he was punished because he was late.
You just have to understand the sentence and then choose whether "as" means "when" or "because".

The lyrics from your Michael Jackson song are very poor, the words are here just for the sound of them.
"Are you ok, Annie ?" repeated a hundred times......

"As he came into the window, it was the sound of a crescendo" doesn't make much sense. I suppose the crescendo means here the growing intensity of the aggression because she runs into the bedroom but is caught up there.

There is not much to be learnt from this song.





Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 13:48:02 (D | E)
Hello,
notrepere, None of your sentences make sense, as gerondif has already pointed out, because a crescendo doesn't have a sound.
Here's an example of the use of the word 'crescendo': The crescendo of the orchestra masked the sound of his coming through the window.

Gerondif paint "my" sentence When he came into the window,it was the sound of a crescendo" green.
Green means that it's right,doesn't it? The piece of music, the musical performance (play)(not orchestra) could have crescendo (the increasing of the sound), maybe, that is why "sound of a crescendo" (the maximum sound)is. (although it would must be "crescendo of a sound",wouldn't it?)When the sound increases up to the max, it gets a crescendo sound (the sound of a crescendo)...something like that.

-------------------
Edited by a_limon on 19-06-2012 13:49




Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 14:04:01 (D | E)
Gerondif, thank you for your answer.

"As he came into the window, it was the sound of a crescendo" doesn't make much sense. I suppose the crescendo means here the growing intensity of the agression because she runs into the bedroom but is caught up there.
Yes,of course, the terms "crescendo", "a sound of a crescendo" here, I understand in figurative meaning.
Could you tell me please if one uses "as" as "when",whether it is necessary the adverbial as-clause be put in the beginning of the sentence?
Could one use "as" in the meaning of "because"? For example:

As(because)my dog loves pizza crusts, he never barks at the deliveryman




Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 19-06-2012 at 14:43:16 (D | E)
Hello,

(I put in green the right sentence from the song by M Jackson, it doesn't mean it makes sense)
(Maybe he had in mind that film by Hitchcock, "psycho" where a man comes into the bathroom with a knife and the music gets louder and louder until the girl is stabbed in the shower.)

The "as" clause often comes first if you want to highlight it:
As he was late, he was punished. but it needn't be so all the time.
He got caught as he had left his fingerprints everywhere.




Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 14:56:55 (D | E)
Hello,
Gerondif, As he was late, he was punished. but it needn't be so all the time.
Tell me please if I'm right as I think that "as" in your sentence means "when". "When he was late, he was punished."
Or it is necessary to understand it like"Because he was late,he was punished". Both meanings in your sentence seem OK to me.
I would even say that "as" in your sentence could be "if". (If he was late, he was punished)




Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 19-06-2012 at 15:01:40 (D | E)
Hello,

As/since/ he was late, he was punished. As here means because. It can't mean when.
Otherwise, I would have said:
He got punished whenever he was late// He got punished when he was late.




Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 16:18:53 (D | E)
Hello gerondif,

you mean that "when" couldn't be here,in your sentence, because of the "be"?
If it were "get punished" then "when" would be ok?
When he was late, he got punished.
( I put subordinate clause with "when" at the beginning of the sentence. It's ok?




Re: As/when or because from lucile83, posted on 19-06-2012 at 17:54:14 (D | E)
Dear gerondif...do you want it? do you need it?  Will one tablet be enough?
 
I am joking of course...



Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 18:12:11 (D | E)
Hi!
Gerondif needs no tablet,I think..he is strong and able to continue help without any chemistry. If someone asked me to help with Russian language I would agree with joy. I wonder where are the foreigners wishing to learn Russian are.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 19-06-2012 18:28




Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 18:39:58 (D | E)
I really like your answers,and I don't want to leave this site.

-------------------
Edited by lucile83 on 19-06-2012 18:47
Why should you leave us? you are just an amazing human brainstorming!



Re: As/when or because from notrepere, posted on 19-06-2012 at 18:44:06 (D | E)
Hello

I didn't realize that those were words from a song. Figures. But as with many songs, they don't necessarily make sense as is the case here. Who knows what state MJ was in when he wrote those words, but one mustn't speak ill of the dead. We shall call it poetry of the most transparent kind.



Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 19-06-2012 at 19:12:05 (D | E)
But gerondif understand perfectly what MJ meant. (MJ compared the situation with the crescendo,there was the sound of the smashing window, culmination of the situation.. I like MJ for his songs,humanity,voice,dances and lyrics. His songs are very interesting and clear to me. My problem was only in understanding the meaning of the "as" ("when","the way he came" or "because") In all cases this sentence sounds well for me. But correct understanding is When he came into (through) the window,it was the sound of a crescendo.. (as gerondif said)

ps If only you can hear and understand the meaning of songs of some Russian rock-groups. It is really impossible to understand.. No sense at all. I really wonder who likes it. Meet,so-called Mummi-troll. Link




Re: As/when or because from notrepere, posted on 19-06-2012 at 19:45:01 (D | E)
Hello

Well, if gerondif can make you happy, then everyone's happy.



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 19-06-2012 at 19:46:01 (D | E)
(Watch out np !! You're getting soft! I might not have all those qualities !! )
Hello,
answering you is like playing tennis against Nadal, whatever grammatical smash I think I have thrown,the ball always comes back......

As/since/ he was late, he was punished. As here means because, or "considering the fact that he was late. It can't mean when. It is more a consequence.

Otherwise, I would have said:
He got(was) punished whenever he was late// He got(was) punished when he was late.
I punished him every time he was late.


you mean that "when" couldn't be here,in your sentence, because of the "be"? NO
If it were "get punished" then "when" would be ok? There is no relation between the two
When he was late, he would get punished, so after a while, he arrived on time.
( I put subordinate clause with "when" at the beginning of the sentence. It's ok?) Why not?





Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 14:21:50 (D | E)
Hello!~
No,I acts not always as Nadan. Sometimes, your answers find the goal :-0)
Gerondif,Could you tell me,please When he was late, he was punished. is the same that When he was late,he got punished.
I still have a question..You said that "since/because" is meant in the sentenceAs he was late,he got(was) punished But how did you learn it?? The sentence with "when" "When he was late, he was punished" has sense too.(although it is other one.)
But in the sentence "As he came into the window, it was the sound of a crescendo", you said that "when" was meant,not "since".
What is the rule for understanding "as":"when" OR "since"?



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 14:54:56 (D | E)
Hello,

I can but repeat what I have already said!

"You said that "since/because" is meant in the sentence As he was late,he got(was) punished But how did you learn it?? "
Because I invented that sentence and that is what I meant.

There is no rule , it is a question of MEANING!

As he came into the room, he saw that all the people were crying! Here as means when, it is just LOGICAL.
At the precise time when he came into the room,// the moment he came into the room..............


As he was late, he was/got punished. Here,as means because, since, it is just LOGICAL.
(was expresses a state, got expresses a process, a transformation.)

In my opinion, as can't mean when because the sentence would "ring false".

"as" means when when "as" means "at the time when", "at the moment when"
You just can't say:
At the time when he was late, he was punished.

If I want to mean when, then I use when. I will also use another form of preterite.

I remember ! When he arrived late, I used to punish him / I would punish him / I immediately punished him.
And here, I don't insist on duration , It is a reaction, a cause, a consequence.

SO, if I wish to use better English, I replace when and use "as" instead, but the meaning is because , since.
As he was late, I had no other choice but to punish him.





-------------------
Edited by gerondif on 20-06-2012 14:55





Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 15:58:02 (D | E)
Hello,
Gerundif,thank you for answer. When I said "when" I meant "if". If(as) he was late,he was punished. Maybe,that is why"when" was awkward. Could you tell me "If he was late, he was punished" sounds OK? It seems to me that "if" in your sentence might be too. Or it sounds not well too?



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 16:07:21 (D | E)
Hello,
I prefer when to if but if could be understood.





Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 16:10:00 (D | E)
PS In my opinion, as can't mean when because the sentence would "ring false".
Does the "false" in the "ring false" be the ajective,or is it the adverb here? (I understand its meaning "It seems faked."-"falked is the participle (the ajective),but I'm not sure about the "false" in the "ring false")



Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 16:17:33 (D | E)
Hello,
I prefer when to if but if could be understood.
But "When he was late,he was punished" sounds awkward (wrong). It means that "If he was late, he was punished" sounds awkward too?
I remember ! When he arrived late, I used to punish him / I would punish him / I immediately punished him.
And here, I don't insist on duration , It is a reaction, a cause, a consequence.

You mean that "As he was late,he was punished" insists on duration? That is why "if"(when) is not suitable here?



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 16:22:57 (D | E)
Hello,

When he was late,he was punished" sounds awkward . NO, it doesn't !

When he was late,he was punished"
Whenever he was late, he was punished / he got punished / I punished him /

as soon as he arrived late, he was punished.

He wasn't punished unless he arrived late.
He wasn't punished if he didn't arrive late.

But If you prefer "if", it's fine too.



Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 16:34:21 (D | E)
Hello,
So,the sentense "When he was late, he was punished" sounds ok?
Only if one thought that "As he was late, he was punished" means "When he was late,he was punished" one would be mistaken?
I understood that understanding "As he was late, he was punished" as "When he was late,he was punished" is wrong because "When he was late,he was punished" rings false.(we couldn't use "when" in this structure of a sentence)



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 17:03:07 (D | E)
Hello,

So,the sentence "When he was late, he was punished" sounds ok? YES

Only if one thought that "As he was late, he was punished" means "When he was late,he was punished" one would be mistaken? YES

I understood that understanding "As he was late, he was punished" as "When he was late,he was punished" is wrong: YES

because "When he was late,he was punished" rings false.NO

As he was late, he was punished. As means since, because, considering, as a consequence of his being late.
As is a means to explain why.

When he was late, he was punished. When here means: on the occasions when he was late / whenever/everytime/
"When" is just a time-trigger that fires the punishment.






Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 17:24:42 (D | E)
"He got caught as he sat in the car."="He got caught when he sat in the car"? Yes?

it means "He got caught in the moment when he was sitting down into the car,or after he had sat down into the car"?



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 17:38:48 (D | E)
Hello,

Why not, as is not isolated in first position but I would prefer a progressive tense.

He got caught by the police as he was sitting in the car and getting ready to leave. It is better to use the ing form to express duration, and then as gets closer to while and when

He got caught by the police while he was getting into the car.

He got caught when/as soon as/ he opened the door of the car.



Re: As/when or because from a_limon, posted on 20-06-2012 at 18:05:06 (D | E)
Hello,
He got caught when/as soon as/ he opened the door of the car.
But if we doesn't use the Continues Tense after "when" or "while" in He got caught when (or maybe while) he opened the door of the car. what moment do we mean? He was caught after opening the door,or he was caught in the moment of opening the door?



Re: As/when or because from gerondif, posted on 20-06-2012 at 18:14:12 (D | E)
Hello,
When + preterit will mean the beginning of the action. He got caught the minute he opened the door.




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