Present perfect...

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Present perfect...
Message de mae_lia posté le 26-03-2005 à 10:52:05 (S | E | F | I)
Hi!!
I can't understand the fact that the present perfect has a "lien" with the present. Of course, I know how to use it but I don't understand that sentence...With the past simple, there is a 'rupture' with the present so it's a good clue. Can you explain me better the fact that the present perfect have(have, subjunctive form? has???) a "lien" with the present...?

Thanks!
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Edité par bridg le 26-03-2005 13:31
English only

Réponse: Present perfect... de vance, postée le 26-03-2005 à 11:47:48 (S | E)
Hi Maelys
I think that there is a grammar file on the site, but let me explain to you as I see it. As I see your English is very good, I'll put it in English.

I have learnt (well, that's present perfect, it means that now, I know) that there are only two tenses in English : present and past (mind you "tense" is not the same as "time"... "tense" is a grammatical term, whereas "time" refers to the psychological reference to "time")

So, these 2 tenses are the present and the past. That's easy, isn't it ?
When we use the preterit (in fact, past simple), we always refer to something that really belongs to.... the past. Remember that "preterite" comes from a latin word "praeteritum", whichs means "dead".... so, what is "dead" is dead, it can't be present, do you agree ?

When we use a "present perfect" (notice that there is the word "present" in it), we don't refer to the past, but to the results of something that happened, or started happening in the past.

For instance, if you arrive late at school, you will say "Sorry, I have missed my bus" . But, supposing your teacher doesn't believe you, or wants to be aggressive he/she may ask you "Why did you miss it then ?
Did you leave home on time ?"..... well, he/she is thinking of the past situation : what time you got up.... if you really hurried....

That's my explanation. Tell me if you find it satisfactory.

Regards

Réponse: Present perfect... de vance, postée le 26-03-2005 à 11:51:39 (S | E)
Humm.... je peux le mettre en français aussi, c'est quand même de la grammaire..

Réponse: Present perfect... de jardin62, postée le 26-03-2005 à 11:53:20 (S | E)
bonjour mae_lia!
Oui, je peux: enfin je peux essayer!
Il y a 2 façons de considérér un évènement passé :
*soit j'en fais un souvenir, daté, terminé, bon à mettre dans l'album photo et je tourne la page:
Ex: She wrote me a letter 6 months ago/ ou / last week / etc. Le verbe est au prétérit + marqueur de temps.
** Soit la date passée n'a aucune importance, seul le résultat m'intéresse : present perfect
Ex: She has written me a letter = tout change pour l'anglais! Elle m'a écrit et au moment où je prononce cette phrase, maintenant, dans le présent, ce fait passé a des résultats, des liens selon ton expression.
Pourquoi: elle m'a écrit (fait passé) et (dans ma tête) , je suis contente, ou non, ou il faudra que je réponde.
Ex: He has painted the fence ( il a peint la barrière/ Quand ?= aucune importance/ ce qui m'intéresse, c'est que le résultat est là sous mes yeux, aujourd'hui. Ce fait passé (il a peut-être réalisé cette action exceptionnelle , il y a des semaines!) a un lien avec le présent: je le remarque, j'en suis étonnée /ou/ il a osé /ou/ il faudra que je le paie...
Ex: si jamais quelqu'un ajoutait :'this morning' nous basculerions pour le même évènement dans un passé daté, terminé ==> he painted the fence this morning.= prétérit
Est-ce que c'est un peu plus clair?

Réponse: mae_lia de mae_lia, postée le 26-03-2005 à 13:22:55 (S | E)
Well...Vance, you say that the teacher could say:
Why DID you miss the bus?

But if we are still in the morning, what dosen"t he say:
Why HAVE you MISSED the bus?

Thanks for having said that my english is well thanks to jardin to.

Réponse: Present perfect... de jardin62, postée le 26-03-2005 à 14:10:33 (S | E)
Once again I have to ask for indulgence ( that's the second time! I first thought the topic was a question about English and I have answered in French!

Réponse: Present perfect... de traviskidd, postée le 27-03-2005 à 01:31:40 (S | E)
You wouldn't say "I have missed the bus", unless maybe you see the bus pulling away from the stop as you are running to it. Otherwise, the fact that you have missed the bus is obvious, because anyone can plainly see that you're not on the bus!

Mom: "Hurry up, John, the bus is fixing (=about) to leave!"
John: "I'm coming, Mom! Can you tell the bus driver to wait for me?"
Mom: "You're too late! The bus is leaving now! You've missed it! I guess I'm going to have to take you to school."

[John arrives at school.]

John: "Sorry I'm late, Mrs. Smith."
Mrs. S: "And why are you late this time?"
John: "I missed the bus."
Mrs. S: "Again? You missed the bus again?" [Mrs. Smith is asking whether or not a past event happened.]
John: "Yes ma'am."
Mrs. S: "So ... you've missed the bus again!" [Mrs. Smith is referring to the fact that John is PRESENTLY in trouble ] "Why did you miss the bus this time?" [Mrs. Smith is asking for the reason that the past event occured.]
John: "I don't know."
Mrs. S: "Do you realize this is the third time this month that you've missed the bus?" [The month isn't over; John could still miss the bus a fourth time!]

Réponse: mae_lia de mae_lia, postée le 27-03-2005 à 13:59:21 (S | E)
Oh, well, that's really interesting. thanks very much!

Réponse: Present perfect... de ruofei, postée le 28-03-2005 à 19:06:47 (S | E)
hello Mae_lia
Hope you're doing ok.

Present perfect: have done (have/has + -V-EN)

A good example I can come up with is the following:
Children on 26th:
1: “Santa Claus was here!?(Past simple: fact in the past, the kids saw him, Santa Claus happened to be here)
2: “Santa Clause has been here!?(P.Perfect: the kids may not have seen him, but the presents at the foot of the Christmas tree show that he came around. They’re just kind of pointing the presents out –with their fingers or in their heads- and saying: “we have presents now?(hence the auxiliary ‘have?
So, the difference here is clear: the Past simple refers to a particular event frozen in time, while timing isn’t a big deal with the P.Perfect (either you don’t know or you just don’t care)

However, it can sometimes prove confusing to say that the present perfect is somehow connected with the present, that it has clues or traces in the time of speaking. I mean, look at this example:
Someone’s just killed a person, their witness friend say:
“Oh man! What did you do!??
“Oh my! What have you done?!?
The present situation is the same: somebody’s corpse is lying on the floor. And both examples are fine…what’s actually different is the way people look at the event or feel about it. ('did' may sound more of an aggressive critic rather than a mere observation)

Further examples:
1: “What was his name again?”…”um..I forgot!?(present situation: the person can’t remember now, past simple works though)
2: “Have you seen Dan this morning??(it’s the morning)
“Did you see Dan this morning (it’s the evening)
According to the grammar, this is how we should say?BUT, if we have a closer look at the present situation, we’d find out that it’s the same: now, the person doesn’t know where Dan is?
Most of the time, when time markers aren’t mentioned, both tenses work fine.

I’m not saying they’re interchangeable.
I reckon the simplest way to avoid your confusion, is to keep in mind this grammar rule > some expressions can only be used with either of the 2 tenses:
PAST SIMPLE: yesterday, last week, 10 mins?ago, since 1999, on Monday, at 6 o’clock, when?? How long is it since?
P.PERFECT: Just, yet, already, recently, lately, for hours, in the last few days, today, it’s the first time, have never +v-EN, …so far, how long?

This is basic rule, this is.
Besides, I noticed on more than one occasion that British’s and Americans?attitude towards Past simple and P.Perfect is quite different…Americans tend to substitute the P.Perfect by the Past simple: ‘I just decided it? ‘I lost them? ‘Did you have lunch already?’….)

There are actually other differences between these 2 tenses and I know it’s pretty hard to master them. But don’t feel disappointed if it takes you some time to come up with the right tense…and often think up the wrong! Try to do as many exercises as you can…Practice makes perfect, as a rule!
N.B: “lien?= link /with/

Have a nice day!

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Edit?par ruofei le 29-03-2005 03:22

Réponse: Present perfect... de geogeo, postée le 31-03-2005 à 01:06:27 (S | E)
Thank you everybody for these ~~explications~~ explanations. My understanding of the subtle ~~distincness~~ distinction between these two conjugations after the reading of the topic is really better.

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Edité par serena le 31-03-2005 02:54

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